Comments on Getafilm: 300 Words About: Waitress

I forgot about that bit in Marilyn's comment, Scot...

2008-07-10T15:28:00.000-05:00

I forgot about that bit in Marilyn's comment, Scott. I want to agree with you, but then I wonder. She was killed shortly before it premiered at Sundance. Now we know there are a LOT of films that screen at Sundance and are never heard of or seen again, at least not by a wide audience.

So the question is, did Waitress make it out of Sundance on its own merit? It wasn't nominated for any awards there. I hope nobody thinks of me as callous for mentioning this.

I'm not saying it's a bad movie. I don't think it is. But you've just now made me think about Marilyn's comment.

"If Adrienne Shelly hadn't been murdered, I daresa...

2008-07-10T14:21:00.000-05:00

"If Adrienne Shelly hadn't been murdered, I daresay nobody would have heard of it."

Really? I watched it not knowing that she had been killed. But there's a good chance that the programmers who screened the film for me and fellow theatre-goers knew about the sad news. Hmmm...

Your reaction to the sentimentality might depend o...

2008-07-10T11:03:00.000-05:00

Your reaction to the sentimentality might depend on your mood at the time. Certainly it's a good call for a romantic summer date with your girlfriend!

I think it's a winner, and I like how it's unabash...

2008-07-09T23:15:00.000-05:00

I think it's a winner, and I like how it's unabashedly sentimental. It's not perfect but it has a big, beating heart. Great experience seeing this with the girlfriend and a theatre full of females on a pretty hot June afternoon last year. Love Andy Griffith in this especially.

lol, gooey! That's about how I felt after My Blueb...

2008-07-09T16:58:00.000-05:00

lol, gooey! That's about how I felt after My Blueberry Nights. I know exactly what you mean, though. Some movies you just want to soak in and not think too hard about.

Unfortunately that's getting harder to do, but that's my own fault...

I had heard good things about "Waitress" before I ...

2008-07-09T16:26:00.000-05:00

I had heard good things about "Waitress" before I saw it, and I think highly of it now so I can only hope I don't think any less of it, because that would suck.

It's the kind of movie I don't even want to analyze because it's just so, I don't know, "gooey"? I cannot explain how it made me feel, but it made me feel good and hungry and entertained, and warmed my stone cold heart until now even.

Good point about the friends, Craig. I kinda forgo...

2008-07-09T16:06:00.000-05:00

Good point about the friends, Craig. I kinda forgot about them. That guy Ogie almost grew on me, too, as cloying as he was.

It's weird, Nick, thinking about movies before you reviewed them. For me that's less than a year ago. I still don't write reviews for everything that I see (especially some of these summer movies), but I nonetheless find myself doing it in my head while I'm in the movie. I never thought I'd get to that point, or at least thought I wouldn't want to, but it seems uncontrollable.

I guess what I'm saying is that I don't know if or how you might see Waitress differently a second time around, now with your critic's hat permanently on.

Nick touches on something that seems to be lost on...

2008-07-09T15:53:00.000-05:00

Nick touches on something that seems to be lost on a lot of people. The warmth and heart in the movie.

I loved her support group of friends, even though they weren't very well fleshed out characters, they were funny and I liked how they all supported each other.

I enjoyed "Waitress," but never reviewed it becaus...

2008-07-09T14:45:00.000-05:00

I enjoyed "Waitress," but never reviewed it because I didn't review movies back then. I always see it at the DVD store, but something stops me from buying it.

Maybe some day, it has been a while since I saw it, and remember liking it a lot, and at the end, when I realised that it was the last film Shelly would ever make, I was really, really sad. She had so much potential. But, she made "Waitress" with a lot of heart, and it shone through. It had a really warm, natural, effortless charm that was so easy to like.

Anyway, lovely review of a lovely film.

To be continued, Fletch and Marilyn...I appreciate...

2008-07-09T13:09:00.000-05:00

To be continued, Fletch and Marilyn...I appreciate the conversation.

Interesting connection - can either of you whip up amazing pies, Rachel? Seriously, though, that's a nice story (as I said, I would expect the right person in the right situation to really feel this movie), and a really nice gift idea.

Craig, it's this fact that you so simply state - "In the end, it gets bonus points for being a rarity, but I still wish it was a better movie." - that prevented me from bumping this into the "A's" zone.

I really struggled when reviewing this one. My gut...

2008-07-09T12:26:00.000-05:00

I really struggled when reviewing this one. My gut response was that it was 'just ok', but at the same time I wanted to give it the benefit of a doubt for being a rare movie by and about women...But then that felt chickenshit and patronizing.
In the end, it gets bonus points for being a rarity, but I still wish it was a better movie.
The big problem I had was that Jeremy Sisto was such a TV-Movie-of-the-week stereotype bad husband character. Had he been toned down a notch and been more realistic, it would've strengthened the movie. At least the dramatic half would've been more satisfying.

I too loved Waitress, but probably for more person...

2008-07-09T11:27:00.000-05:00

I too loved Waitress, but probably for more personal reasons.

I went to see it the day after my birthday, and a week before my wedding, with my Mom. Emotions were already running high with everything going on in real life, but then Jenna's unwanted pregnancy and gaining the strength to raise a child (a daughter) on her own slightly mirrored my mother's story when she had me. It's not exactly the same, but it was enough to turn us both into sobbing messes by the end of the film.

I think for my Mom's birthday this year, I'll make a donation to the Adrienne Shelley Foundation to help support all those future female filmmakers.

Fletch - I really don't want to belabor this too m...

2008-07-09T08:40:00.000-05:00

Fletch - I really don't want to belabor this too much, but the word conspiracy makes the idea that women are underrepresented for reasons other than personal preference sound crackpot. It's hard to break free of social norms to understand what may be going on under the surface. Check out the doc by Rosanna Arquette called Looking for Debra Winger for some perspectives from women in the industry.

No worries, Daniel. I think my point of view got ...

2008-07-09T01:44:00.000-05:00

No worries, Daniel. I think my point of view got skewed and lost along the way.

Suffice it to say that I'm certainly not of the opinion that film should be a male-dominated field, only that I don't think there's any sort of vast conspiracy leading it that way.

I hope this discussion picks up again in the futur...

2008-07-08T23:56:00.000-05:00

I hope this discussion picks up again in the future. Didn't realize it would happen here, but it makes sense.

Despite the stats, Fletch, I'm still leaning toward the "this is a problem" side, even though I'm certainly open to hearing more about it. Marilyn's reasoning in her reply resonates pretty strongly with me (especially if it means more romantic comedies like Waitress and less like the poor male-written and directed versions that come out so regularly), and I still feel that despite the numbers (go figure - 25% of my blogroll is female), the creative interest and desire is there. As you say, it's a debate where both sides have to speculate.

It's nice to have a favorite little gem to share with others, isn't it, Matthew?

Haha, Miranda, the fact doesn't escape me that you mention Ellen Burstyn's Oscar win for Alice (as I love mentioning her snub due to, ahem, you know who). Funny coincidence.

I'd heard of the movie before, but with that in mind and Scorsese and Foster in her younger years, I've obviously missed a classic.

Marilyn, you needn't be. Someone has to speak the ...

2008-07-08T22:37:00.000-05:00

Marilyn, you needn't be. Someone has to speak the truth.

I think you're wonderful...

Miranda - I'm humbled.

2008-07-08T19:55:00.000-05:00

Miranda - I'm humbled.

Bravo, Marilyn.That was fabulous. I couldn't have ...

2008-07-08T19:25:00.000-05:00

Bravo, Marilyn.

That was fabulous. I couldn't have said it better myself. Though I've stated many similar things in my brief time blogging.

I bow to you. You're my new personal hero.

Danny, you've NEVER SEEN ALICE DOESN'T LIVE HERE ANYMORE????! It makes Waitress look like overcooked beef.

Sweetie, the fantastic ELLEN BURSTYN won the 1974 Best Actress Oscar for this performance. JODIE FOSTER has one of her first featured roles and she's hysterical ("So long, suckers!!!"). Alice and her kid have a real interesting relationship. It's loving but quite adversarial. He's funny as hell.

In case you're still hesitating, three words: Scorsese directed it.

*shakes head*

Time's a wastin, pal...

I absolutely adore "Waitress." It's one of those ...

2008-07-08T18:09:00.000-05:00

I absolutely adore "Waitress." It's one of those movies I fell immediately in love with, and have shown to just about everyone I know. Shelley showed great talent it's a tragedy that she is no longer with us.

Fletch - I know that women are a minority among fi...

2008-07-08T16:08:00.000-05:00

Fletch - I know that women are a minority among film bloggers and in the film industry. As a rugged, old feminist, all I can say is that there are a lot of reasons for that that have nothing to do with the preferences of women. I do know that I've heard of actresses who had "topped out" before 30 and turned to directing because they couldn't get work acting. I also know that a lot of women--beginning with Mary Pickford in the 1920s--started their own production companies just to get work that they want to do, or just to get work, period. I can name at least one woman actress who showed tremendous skill in her directorial debut and then was thwarted in all attempts to make other films by her husband, Elia Kazan--Barbara Loden (http://ferdyonfilms.com/2007/07/wanda-1970-1.php).

Does it matter that there aren't more women in all the aspects of cinema? I would say that it does. If women aren't making films, then their varied life experiences won't be reflected in the popular culture. We'll just get the same popular chick flicks. We won't see middle-aged women as they really are, or old women, or girls or young women. For that matter, no minority culture in the film industry has prolific, accurate images of themselves. This is a problem.

Films are modern myths, and myths help us learn about how to live. People need to see themselves, not as caricature old ladies, or man-hungry/vengeful divorcees, or gang bangers, but as they are and can be. I have a review on my site for a film called "Time to Die" that spells out how I feel on this point. As a female blogger, I'm trying to let my readers in on the conversation that women in front of and behind the camera are having that will help them understand their own humanity. I'm also giving my perspective on the films that the majority male bloggers have already passed their best judgment on. You'd be surprised what y'all miss. I also have a brilliant young man as a blog partner to take up films for which I'm going to have blindspots and to speak about the male experience.

Marilyn, I think we could go back and forth all da...

2008-07-08T15:48:00.000-05:00

Marilyn, I think we could go back and forth all day. :) I'd say "but look what I found here that shows how the percent of each gender that applied mirrors the enrollment rates," but then you might come back and say "yes, but how many women's hands were tied behind their backs by men, keeping them from being able to fill out the application?"

Yes, I'm being facetious, but really, I have no reason to believe that there's an equal number of applicants that somehow turns into a severely swewed enrollment>>job rate.

You're obviously an exception, but I just don't feel that generally speaking women are as interested in directorial roles (and film in general) as men. For another weak piece of evidence, I point to the "Who are LAMB?" bit I did some months back. Was it any surprise that >75% of the respondents were male?

Not to me.

All that said, I'm not disagreeing that there may be a problem - I just don't think it's nearly as significant or widespread as you (and possibly others) do.

I hate to say it, but the respectable film Alice D...

2008-07-08T15:46:00.000-05:00

I hate to say it, but the respectable film Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore gave birth to the TV series Alice and an odious southern waitress with the equally odious tagline, "Kiss my grits!" Oy!

An interesting comparison, Pat. I haven't seen Ali...

2008-07-08T15:14:00.000-05:00

An interesting comparison, Pat. I haven't seen Alice, but like I say, the set-up here is pretty conventional. And yeah, the pie craving lasts. Welcome back from China, by the way!

As little as it might be, I appreciate that evidence, Fletch (and I can imagine it was difficult to find). I must admit I didn't consider the enrollment stats at film schools. Good for raw analysis, but I'm still curious as to how that translates in real life, especially with the point Marilyn makes.

Fletch - I really don't think those numbers suppor...

2008-07-08T15:03:00.000-05:00

Fletch - I really don't think those numbers support your theory. It gives the composition of the student body, but not how many women applied. It also doesn't give real numbers of students. So, if there are 30 students in the TV directors class, that means that only 17 women are going to be put into the system and says nothing about their chances in the job market.

It's amazing how little data I could find on the n...

2008-07-08T14:49:00.000-05:00

It's amazing how little data I could find on the net regarding enrollment statistics at film schools. I've looked forever and only found some stats regarding Ireland and Denmark. Little help that they are, they still supported my theory:

"Significantly more males (66%) than females (34%) are engaged in film directing courses" (http://tinyurl.com/5g5qdy)

"The National Film School of Denmark
Denmark’s film school has both a film and TV school. The school is a central gatekeeper in the industry. We examined both who decides who gets in, who gets in, and who teaches at the school.

Admissions Boards 1992-2002:
Film: 76% men & 24% women
TV: 65% men & 35% women.

Teachers:
Film: 79% men & 21% women
TV: 65% men & 35% women

Film Students:
Sound recording engineers: 93% men & 7% women
Cinematographers: 90.5% men & 9.5% women
Directors: 75% men & 25% women
Screenwriters: 65% men & 35% women
Film producers: 54% men & 46% women
Editors: 46% men & 54% women

TV Students
TV directors: 45% men & 55% women
TV producers: 44% men & 56% women"

(http://tinyurl.com/5ggofm)